Dr. Anthony Fauci’s year-end retirement doesn’t mean he will avoid congressional oversight and accountability, said Steve Deace, author of “Faucian Bargain: The Most Powerful and Dangerous Bureaucrat in American History.”

On Aug. 22, Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, or NIAID, and chief medical adviser to President Joe Biden, announced he would retire from the government in December.

“There will be meaningful investigations that will uncover meaningful information that especially has to answer the question, after the Obama administration ordered the ending, the ceasing, of gain-of-function research in 2014, by whose authority did it begin again? Where did it start again?” Deace told “The Daily Signal Podcast.”

Deace said the lasting lesson from Fauci’s tenure and “Faucism” is that “never again can this kind of singular power be placed in an unelected official or an agency that’s unelected and not directly accountable to the people. Period, end of sentence.”

The host of “The Steve Deace Show” on BlazeTV anticipates Republicans will control at least one house of Congress in 2023, and that the origins of COVID-19 and how agencies such as the National Institutes of Health and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention will be held accountable. 

“They won’t have a lot of meaningful fights, and so they need to, I think, feed the ecosystem something,” Deace said. “… They will do some meaningful investigating of NIH; NIAID, that’s Fauci’s department; and NIH under, I mean, Francis Collins, what went on in terms of CDC under both Robert Redfield and now Rochelle Walensky.”

Deace is the co-author of the forthcoming book “Rise of the Fourth Reich: Confronting COVID Fascism With a New Nuremberg Trial, So This Never Happens Again.”

He predicts Fauci and other public health officials who guided COVID-19 policies will have a legacy of being “authoritarians” for consistently doubling down on ineffective policies. 

“It’s not that they were just doing gain-of-function. They were doing it specifically to measure spillover potential,” Deace said of the federal funding that found its way to the Wuhan lab in China. “… They wanted to figure out what would cause one of these viruses to jump from an animal to a human. They were provoking that outcome in the lab. So, it’s not just how dangerous gain-of-function is, but the functionality they were testing in and of itself was dangerous.”

The following is a lightly edited transcript of the interview with Deace.

Fred Lucas: Dr. Anthony Fauci announced he will be resigning in December, and [we] wanted to talk to the person who wrote the most authoritative book on Dr. Fauci, and that is Steve Deace. He is the host of “The Steve Deace Show”” on BlazeTV, and he’s written several books. Most relevant for this broadcast is “Faucian Bargain: The Most Powerful and Dangerous Bureaucrat in American History.” Thanks for joining us, Steve.

Steve Deace: I’m happy to be here, Fred. Thanks for asking me, brother. How are you?

Lucas: Yeah. Doing great. Doing great. Good to talk to you again. So, I wanted to start off with your initial reaction.

Deace: I think it has little to do with the likelihood that Republicans will take at least one house of Congress this fall. I think it is actually the timing of it. It comes on the heels of the CDC basically ending COVID restrictions as we have known them for the last 29 months, and then they scrubbed just a complete falsehood from their website that it had been on there for well over a year that the spiked protein from the jab only stays in your body temporarily.

That is not true, has not been true, and has been known for a year to not be true. And then they just kind of quietly scrubbed that from their website about a week ago. And so, I actually think, Fred, when you look at these events in coordination, this is an attempt to kind of gaslight and memory-hole COVID and move on and act as if we’re done here. We’re good. Move on, and nothing to talk about, nothing to see here.

I think it’s about that narrative more than it’s about anything else.

Lucas: We have learned a lot about gain-of-function research over time. Do you think if there is any congressional investigation, the absence of [Fauci] being in this role is going to lose some dramatic effect?

Deace: No, I don’t think so at all. And I don’t have a lot of high hopes for Republicans fighting for us on things we care about in Washington DC, but this is one area now, we may not like. They may just refer their information to [Attorney General] Merrick Garland at [the Department of Justice], which is a little bit like urinating into the wind, but I actually do think, next year, if they have control of at least one house, and I’d be stunned if they don’t, that there will be meaningful investigations that will uncover meaningful information that especially has to answer the question, after the Obama administration ordered the ending, the ceasing, of gain-of-function research in 2014, by whose authority did it begin again? Where did it start again?

I think that’s one of the key questions that has to be asked. And I think particularly, under the current GOP leadership, I would not expect them to substantively fight on issues because their best leverage is the power of the purse.

And everybody, of course, in your town knows the GOP orthodoxy that government shutdowns only hurt Republicans apparently. So, because of that, they won’t have a lot of meaningful fights. And so they need to, I think, feed the ecosystem something. They can’t just do [former Republican House Speaker] John Boehner “surrender theater” for two years. I mean, that will just infuriate everybody.

And I think what they will do instead, Fred, is they will do some meaningful investigating of NIH, NIAID. That’s Fauci’s department, and NIH under, I mean, Francis Collins, what went on in terms of CDC under both Robert Redfield and now Rochelle Walensky. 

Lucas: If you could maybe talk a little bit about your forthcoming book that is about the COVID lockdown.

Deace: So, when you look at what’s gone on over the last 29 months, basically every last syllable of the Nuremberg code has been violated. And for people that don’t know what that’s a reference to, obviously, it refers back to the Nuremberg trials, which of course a lot of our listeners are going to know about, but what came out shortly after the Nuremberg trials. And they did a separate trial for health care personnel because they recognized that without the medical bio-fascist state imposing Nazi junk science on the populace, that it wouldn’t have been possible to impose it on a societal level, and that really is the scientific community, but particularly the health care community.

They were the tip of the spear in the imposition of the autocracy. And so, they actually held a separate group of Nuremberg trials for the health care professionals, doctors and such, … that either were blatantly Nazis or worked with the Nazi Party.

And what came out of the Nuremberg trials was a code of ethics, a code of medical ethics, really the most important medical ethic code in Western tradition since the Hippocratic oath, and it really detailed what informed consent really means, what a test subject can be and cannot be coerced into.

And there are 10 precepts to it. And I’ll save your audience some time, Fred, because we violated every last syllable of all 10 the last 29 months, all of them. And my co-author and I, Daniel Horowitz, we believe that requires punitive punishment. It’s not just enough to say, “Hey, you know what? We’re done here. We’re good. Back to normal,” because there have been numerous benchmarks reached over the last 29 months that showed what they were doing was not working.

Lockdowns did not work. The cure was worse than the disease. Masks never work. That’s why you haven’t been wearing masks since the Spanish flu.

They looked at all this a hundred years ago, and every research and random control study that’s been done in the last hundred years until about May of 2020, all found that cloth masks do nothing to restrict the spread of a respiratory virus. We have to breathe after all, and that’s why you haven’t been wearing those ridiculous Chinese face diapers your whole life during cold and flu season every winter.

And now what we’re seeing with the escalating risk profile from the vaccines: There was a recent survey from Germany’s largest insurer that found almost 5% of everybody it insured, when they insure about one out of every five Germans, 5% of them had a serious enough adverse effect from the jab that they actually made an insurance claim. 

I mean, we are well into the six figures in adverse events reported in our own vaccine adverse event database, otherwise known as VAERS here in the United States. The study out of Thailand, about two weeks ago, that found 18% of teenage boys between 13 and 18 had reported an abnormal EKG after taking a second dose of the second shot of the Pfizer vaccine.

There’s just the Israeli study, British Medical Journal, on and on and on and on it goes. And that a lot of the same people that were responsible for trying to hide what they did with these vaccines for 75 years, that was the original FDA request, was to hide this for 75 years until they lost a federal lawsuit.

A lot of the same people involved in that were a lot of the same people that retconned fake science for masks, retconned lockdowns, and lied to us about the origins of the virus. And really what we’ve got to have here is another Nuremberg, another Nuremberg-like trial, with Nuremberg-like punishments.

And unlike the human trials that they tried to hide from us, we’re going to actually do this real trial transparently, everything televised, everybody on the record that we can never allow this to happen again, because they will try to do it again. And it may not look like a virus in the future. It might look like, “Well, climate is the new medical emergency, your gun ownership is the new medical emergency, or how about your views? Hey, some trans kid committed suicide five counties over because people like you post there’s only two genders on Facebook. Your views are an emergency.”

And we have got to stop this now, before it becomes something even worse later on. And so what we present in our forthcoming book, it comes out in February, but presales are available now. And the title of the book is “Rise of the Fourth Reich: Confronting COVID Fascism with a New Nuremberg Trial, So That This Never Happens Again.” We provide not just ironclad data, but we do 20 witness interviews, people from the military to the medical profession, to everyday people whose children were denied kidney transplants, because they wouldn’t get the jab.

We go comprehensively looking at the damage, what we call COVID-stan has done to America over the last two and a half years in very painstaking detail. And these testimonies are going to wreck you.

And I know people hearing the name of the title, “Rise of the Fourth Reich,” are going to think, “Wow, that’s very provocative.” Our publisher did, too, thought it was going overboard. Then we challenged them to read the manuscript. And if they still think it’s overboard, then we’ll tame it. After reading the manuscript, they came back to us and said, “I don’t know, man. I’m kind of thinking that our founders fought Redcoats for less than what’s in this book.” And I think that’s what has been done to us.

This is an attempt … This was never about health care, Fred. If it was about health care, then every time the data showed over the last 28 months, what we were doing was not working, they would’ve said:

All right, man, our bust. You know what? We got blindsided by this virus. We’re overreacting. We weren’t sure the origin of the virus, is it natural? Is it manmade? So, if it’s natural or if it’s manmade, we don’t know how many of the natural laws of immunology and virology still apply.

And so we just decided to err on the side of caution, given the amount of lives potentially at stake. And now we’re realizing we went too far for this. We went too far on that.

They’re not doing that. There are major cities, Washington, D.C., where you are; New Orleans; that are telling parents, “If you don’t put these escalating risk profile jabs into your children, they can’t come to school.” Major cities, San Diego, [are] telling parents, “If you don’t choke your kids out with these Chinese face diapers, [you] cannot come to school.”

So, it is not completely over. Los Angeles County tried to reinstitute a mask mandate a month ago. And then finally when the wealthier communities like Beverly Hills said, “Yeah, we’re not doing that,” they relented.

See, they never relent, Fred. They never relent because the information, Fred, says, “Oh wow. Our data says what we’re doing doesn’t work.” That’s never why they relent. They only relent when they lose at to Supreme Court, when they lose to a federal court, or when they realize their edicts are not enforceable.

That’s how it’s not about health care. Who acts like that? Who only relents when another powerful body forces them to, or the people threatened to storm the Bastille? Authoritarians. That’s how they behave, because that’s what this was about, power and control. It was never about health care.

Lucas: There are a lot of people who do feel like Fauci over time became sort of an authoritarian figure in some ways, in terms of the power he pushed for. One of the chapters in “The Faucian Bargain” was just called “President Fauci.” And I did want to get your take. You did mention in the book, you made a comparison to Lincoln firing McClellan. General McClellan sort of felt like he was somehow superior intellectually to Lincoln during that war, and yeah, he was just clearly underperforming, and that President [Donald] Trump might have been reelected had he made the decision to fire Fauci. I guess how culpable do you think Trump is in terms of the rise of Fauci in his position?

Deace: If I live in a terrible neighborhood, and I leave my front door unlocked at night, and a ne’er-do-well comes walking right through my front door and steals some of my most prized possessions and walks out of my home with them, is he still guilty of theft? Of course. But did I bring it on myself by leaving my front door wide open and unlocked in a terrible neighborhood?

See the analogy I’m going with here, Fred? I mean, Fauci is singularly responsible for all of his gaslighting, all of his lies, all of his deceptions. He’s out there now claiming he never advocated for any lockdowns at all. He’s on tape advocating for lockdowns at least a dozen times. All right? That’s just part and parcel with this guy, but the mistake that the Trump administration made. And for some of us who had friends working in that administration at the time, and we tried to penetrate that bubble, “Are you guys aware of this data? Do you guys actually know what your own government data says”?

And they just seemingly could never get out from underneath the weight of the early decisions that were made, which was to essentially allow Fauci to become the other half of America that didn’t vote for Trump, to allow him to become the soothing voice of reason so that we would all be in this together.

So, they essentially elevated him to a co-presidential level in the eyes of blue America. And then at the same time, they outsourced all of their decision-making internally to this ridiculous coronavirus committee that was chaired by [then Vice President] Mike Pence, but was really run by [Dr. Deborah] Birx. And if your audience is contemplating self-harm anytime in the future, do not read Dr. Scott Atlas’ book about what was really going on the inside of those coronavirus task force meetings, because that’ll make you just write, “Goodbye, cruel world” and tap out.

That is a depressing read. Everything that you would’ve thought was going on, from [Trump’s son-in-law] Jared Kushner saying, “Don’t rock the boat. Just do whatever you’re told,” over and over again, he would bring them actual experts from places like Stanford, Oxford, elite institutions. And inside the coronavirus task force, Mike Pence would just ignore them, Debbie Birx would throw tantrums. Literally, they just let her call all the shots so that she wouldn’t lose her stuff and then go out in the media and blast them.

You can’t govern like that, particularly in a time of crisis. And if you think the election was stolen, and I do understand that all of those ballot-harvesting boxes all over the country, none of them ever appear if it weren’t for lockdowns.

They used that as the impetus. We had spent the last two decades defeating a lot of their ballot-harvesting schemes to the point that it was trending in our direction. Over 30 states now had laws for voter ID on the books. We were actually winning that battle. So, they used this as the impetus for everything, everything you can imagine, but especially for electioneering.

That’s where … . There were no dropboxes. We didn’t have 2:00 AM, “2000 Mule” drop-offs in 2016. Why? Because we didn’t have lockdowns, and think everybody could forgive Trump the first “15 days to slow the spread.” There was a mass panic in the country. Call a timeout, like in a basketball game when the other team’s on a run and your coach calls a [timeout] to slow down their momentum, fine.

But where he really lost control of the agenda, Fred, and the Trump administration really never got it back until the fall when Trump went into the hospital for COVID and got treated by things like Regeneron, the monoclonal antibodies, and came back from that with a strong message that, “Hey, we can beat this. We can treat this. We don’t have to live in fear of it.” 

That’s six months. That’s about six months of his presidency. In an election year, that’s an eternity that he just never could get back. And it comes from the decision they made to extend those 15 days. And you’ll recall that Trump was talking about, “Hey, let’s use Easter to kind of reopen the country, resurrect the country, if you will.” And then out of nowhere, the Sunday before it was to expire, Birx and Fauci are all over TV talking about, “Well, we talked to president that it would be too early to reopen things.”

It was with those 30 days “to slow the spread” that you saw locked-out-crazed red state governors, like Mike DeWine [of Ohio] and all of the blue state governors that were all locked-out-crazed, that is when they truly got their authoritarian on, and we never fully recovered economically, sociologically, medically.

The country just never recovered from that 30 days to slow the spread. And if Trump had not made that decision, I believe he’d be the president of the United States right now.

Lucas: And to be fair, as how culpable Trump is, after seeing the failures of Fauci’s recommendations, and I guess Birx and others as well, how culpable is Biden for keeping him on despite all this?

Deace: Well, extremely, but understand that you reward your friends. I mean, Joe Biden wouldn’t be president today without Anthony Fauci. And this is what we on the right have got to realize, and this is true in any conflict, whether we’re talking warfare or a sports team, you can’t change what your opponent is. You can’t control what they are willing to do. You can only control what you are willing to do, and what you are willing to become to beat them. And we need much more self-assessment of our own mistakes on the right.

There’s way too much buck-passing, way too much, “but the Democrats,” “but the media.” I mean, when Donald Trump took over in January of 2017, Fred, there were fewer Democrats in elected office in this country than there had been over a hundred years before the Great Depression, before the new deal of political realignment from FDR. They had been decimated, their ranks on a federal state and local level.

They had lost over a thousand elections since the enactment of Obamacare. That was a decimated political party. And so you have to ask yourself, how were they able to, A, win 40 House seats in 2018? Well, we all know the answer to that. Republicans voted 50 plus times to repeal Obamacare, and then when they had the opportunity to do it, didn’t.

And then the No. 1 issue in the 2018 midterm exit polling was health care, which was the issue that destroyed Democrats, and now it’s destroying Republicans because they accepted the responsibility for Democrat skullduggery. The same thing happened here when it came to COVID. Instead of taking lifelines from people like Scott Atlas, they instead surrendered the White House ecosystem to Debbie Birx and really surrendered the external messaging of the presidency during a time of crisis for several months to Anthony Fauci, and never recovered from that.

And now there’s this story from Politico today. I don’t know if you’ve seen this. House Democrats have this report out now. Well, the Trump administration tried to rush these vaccines recklessly and dangerously to try to get them out to win the 2020 election. These people aren’t idiots. They read VAERS. They saw only 2% of Americans injected those things into their toddlers. They’re not dumb. They see that we have essentially been at a static percentage of Americans getting vaccinated since the Supreme Court got rid of the OSHA mandate, and that was in January. They see it. They’re not dumb.

You can see the retcon coming. Pretty soon, they’re going to say, you know what, “Mr. Trump, you wanted all the credit for your vaccines. We’re going to give them to you. They’re dangerous, reckless, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.” Over and over and over again, we see Republicans of almost every stripe, establishment, anti-establishment, populist, conservative, tea party, Christian conservative, libertarian.

I don’t know what happens in your town when someone moves there with an R after their name, Fred, but they just, for whatever reason, fall for bananas in the tailpipe over and over and over again. You cannot accept your enemy’s premise on anything, anything. You cannot take for granted that they’re telling you the truth on anything, anything. 

Lucas: There were, I think, a lot of people who really wanted to give Fauci the benefit of the doubt. I’m talking about on the right, even, who wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. And I think maybe the Palpatine comment, “You attack me, you attack the science,” was kind of a crystallizing moment for people. I guess now that he’s on the way out, how do you think he will be remembered? And do you think the corporate media will rescue his legacy, or do you think there’s too much that will come out going forward?

Deace: As long as … the first rule anybody … Everybody knows the first rule of assassinations is you kill the assassins. So, Anthony Fauci, corporate media will do everything they can to rescue him, as long as that rescue aligns with promoting their overall narrative. The minute it comes out …

Let me just give you an example. Let’s say, because it is true, the Obama administration did cease at the urging of several academics at places like Rutgers and Johns Hopkins, did order the ceasing of gain-of-function research. And then shortly thereafter, there was actually a massive conference in Germany. The audio is still available. I even played a bunch of it on my show last year. There was a massive conference held of vaccinologists in Germany that were from around the world that were very concerned about the Obama administration ceasing of gain-of-function research and what that could do for the future of cutting-edge medical technology.

Let’s say that someone … It turns out… And I’m not saying this happened. I don’t know that it is … I have no information that it did, but let’s say it was [Secretary of Health and Human Services Alex] Azar or somebody early in the Trump administration in the health care apparatus that decided to undo the Obama administration gain-of-function research, and Fauci acted on that, that could be a scenario because it fits into their overall political narrative that they turn on him.

But as long as he is useful to them, they will defend him to the nth degree. The minute he’s no longer useful to them, they won’t.

Lucas: And I guess this question, I’m asking you a little bit to get into Fauci’s head, even, but how much of this do you think he began as potentially well-meaning, and then just became consumed by his own celebrity magazine covers, I think there were action figures at one point, and so forth?

Deace: Well, you know, from reading “Faucian Bargain,” that one of the key questions I ask in that book is, something transpired. In the early days of COVID, where Anthony Fauci was honest about masks don’t work, there’s no need to panic over this … . In fact, I want to say it was March 8th. It’s been a while since I’ve looked at the dates, but I want to say it was March 8th, 2020, that Fauci was on “60 Minutes,” basically going Leslie Nielsen in [the comedy film] “Naked Gun”: “Nothing to see here.”

And then on March 15th is when he gave that ill-fated testimony to Congress that made it sound like this was basically Captain Trips from “The Stand” and the country being entirely shut down the next day. What transpired that week? What new information did he learn? Now, I have a theory. I’ll share it with you if you want. I couldn’t put this in the book at the time it was written, because to allege that coronavirus did not emanate naturally would’ve got you censored everywhere.

When we published this book in March of 2020, and then I think it was by May of 2020, they eased up on those restrictions. Now, there is a chapter in the book called “The Wuhan Lab,” where we drop a lot of breadcrumbs about where we think the virus actually came from, but without coming right out and saying, and in connecting the dots. But if you’re smart, you can connect them on your own.

See, what I believe happened in that week is, I believe that’s when he found out that the research that his entity and agencies were funding over there was likely responsible for the creation of the virus. And I think that’s why you got the Anthony Fauci who did the interview on Salem Radio in New York City in January: “It’s OK,” the Anthony Fauci who told the media originally, “It’s OK to go on your cruises,” the Anthony Fauci that went on “60 Minutes” and said, “There’s no point in wearing masks,” who then just does an instant and complete about-face and issues and hits the doomsday button.

I think the missing link of information that led to his about-face is that they helped fund the creation of this thing with what they were doing over there. The Wuhan is not some remote area. I don’t know that a lot of people know that, Fred. It’s one of the most densely populated areas in one of the most densely populated countries in the world. There are actually multiple of these virology labs in that city. The bat that they claimed the virus came from nests like 900 kilometers away from the lab itself. I mean, it’s just preposterous that this was natural.

The guy who was running the Wuhan Institute of Virology at the time was a former head of China’s bioweapons program. I think what was going on is our scientists, the Francis Collins, the Anthony Faucis, the [profesor of epidemiology] Ralph Barics thought we were just one big happy scientific family with our Chinese contemporaries, working on the next cutting-edge versions of vaccines with these new technologies.

And keep in mind the gain-of-function research they were doing, it’s not that they were just doing gain-of-function. They were doing it specifically to measure spillover potential. That’s their lingo, meaning they wanted to figure out what would cause one of these viruses to jump from an animal to a human. They were provoking that outcome in the lab. So, it’s not just how dangerous gain-of-function is, but the functionality they were testing in and of itself was dangerous.

It’s akin to putting a human being on the Bikini Atoll during the Manhattan Project testing, because you’re measuring radiation’s impact on human beings. That’s essentially what they were doing in that lab from a virology standpoint. And I think when he found out that this traces back to the funding, can be traced back to him and his agencies that their hands are in this, I think that’s what led to the about-face.

And there has been a different Anthony Fauci ever since March 16th. And then I think it became also, there can be no treatments, all the data that got scrubbed on hydroxychloroquine. They treated ivermectin, which won a Nobel Prize in 2015 like It was, well, Remdesivir which has a black box warning and causes kidney failure and doesn’t work. That’s when it … that’s actually not working. I think that what led to the transition in him ultimately is the knowledge that I think our intelligence discovered what its true roots are, and he realized “My hands are in the cookie jar.” And I think that’s what this has been about from the very beginning.

Lucas: Beyond just the gain-of-function potential there, one of the probably worst things he did was, he really went to bat for [then-New York Gov.] Andrew Cuomo. You called in the book, Andrew Cuomo was the first bishop of “Faucism” and “the Branch COVIDians.” Even after the Associated Press first broke the nursing home scandal out of New York, Fauci was out there praising Cuomo for his leadership. What do you think explains that?

Deace: That those families have had relationships for years. This is just all one big, swampy elitist confab. Fauci has been a celebrity in New York elite circles ever since the HIV crisis. Him and the Cuomos, they are … I mean, those families have been personal buddies for years, not to mention New York did do what Fauci wanted.

And here’s what New York got for it, Fred: On New Year’s Eve of 2021, there were more people in the [intensive-care unit] in New York City for COVID than there were on New Year’s Eve of 2020, 11 months into the vaccine program. More people were in the ICU for COVID on New Year’s Eve of 2021 than were in the ICU for COVID in the previous year. So, I mean, that’s what they got for it. That’s what you got for following Faucism. Then you look at what Florida did, you look at what my home state of Iowa did. I think we were one of only two or three states in the whole country that didn’t even do a stay at home order.

And you look at the outcomes that those states got compared to what the states that most closely followed Fauci got. You look at what happened in Sweden, where they did more of a controlled protection herd-immunity strategy, which is how humanity has survived plagues for thousands of years. You look at their excess deaths compared to countries like England, which did draconian lockdowns, overperformed them.

I mean the data doesn’t lie. Finland right now has seeing a skyrocketing amount of excess deaths. Why? Why did life in Finland get so dangerous? All of a sudden? Why do birthrates in places like Taiwan just suddenly drop? Why did we have a sudden drop last summer of our median age of death here in the United States? Where are these data points coming from? And if they’re so easily debunked, how come you’re banned for even bringing them up? These are questions there are no benign and innocent explanations for.

Lucas: And I guess, last question would be, what do you think the big takeaway, lesson going forward, after Fauci leaves office should be?

Deace: That never again can this kind of singular power be placed in an unelected official or an agency that’s unelected and not directly accountable to the people. Period, end of sentence. And to make sure that never happens again, it’s decisions, but then furthermore, it’s motivations for those decisions must be ruthlessly adjudicated and investigated, and transparently vetted, and tried to make an example. You’re never doing this again.

Whether it’s the EPA with fake climate change, you’re never doing this again. Whether it’s the [Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives], when it comes to rounding up our guns, no, you’re not going to get to do that. You’re not going to get your own Fauci. And you’re not going to get your own Fauci with climate. You’re not going to get your own Fauci with guns. We’re not going to let you have your own Fauci on the Department of Homeland Security with “wrong think.”

We’re never allowing anything like this ever again. That’s the lesson that has to be learned. And the mechanisms in place to make sure it doesn’t happen again needs to happen. Otherwise, I promise you this, it will happen again.

Lucas: All right. Well, thanks so much. Steve Deace. He is the host of “The Steve Deace Show” on BlazeTV. Thanks a lot.

Deace: You got it, Fred. Thank you, man.

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